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» Trap Line Community Bulletin Board » Trap Line Archives » Water Animals & Trapping Archives » Drowning set/Slide-Wire, Question???

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Author Topic: Drowning set/Slide-Wire, Question???
redsnow
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For the last few years, I've rigged all of my water sets to drown the animal. Or, at least keep the animal in the water, if it's too shallow for drowning.

I've been using 14ga "bailing wire" (used to tie hay/straw bales together), with RR tie-plates in deep water, and the top end staked or wired solid. I've used this system for years, with no major problems, but I guess 14 ga wire is a little-light for beaver. Maybe, I've just been lucky? Always looking for a better/easier way. What do you guys use? [Smile]

Posts: 954 | From: WV | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bogmaster
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When i used footholds for beaver,I used 1/8 cable for my drowners.I still use these for coon.
1/8 " cable will last a long time,and it isn't going to break.
Tom Olson

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jwr
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I used cable for years. The only problem I ever had with cable was they get kinked up sometimes, and they get tangled up in the bottom of the boat. Or worse yet I get tangled up in them in the bottom of the boat.
Then I started using a few 3/8 rebar rods. Now thats the ticket if your in a boat. I welded a nut 8 in. up from the bottom of the rod for a stop. Built a lock using 1/2 in. pipe and a removable stop for the top to drive the stake thru. (looks kinda like a double stake swivel)

NOW I use some rods and some chain both using the same lock. They both cost more but will last forever.

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musher
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I've had 14 gauge wire break and I've had beaver with a couple of RR plates sitting on the bank waiting for me. [Mad]

I've gone to cable and rerod.

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redsnow
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Years ago I made-up a dozen or so cable-drowning rigs, they worked good for the first and second catch. After that, they were all kinked, and twisted to the point it was difficult to toss out the weight, without getting a knot in the cable. Like i said, that was years ago, maybe i didn't have enough weight for an anchor? Another thing I didn't like, the lock was slow on 1/8" cable, too much drag/resistance. I've trapped for a while, but still learning. Maybe a feller could add a wire "tie-off" on the top-end, so you could pull the line really snug. that may help? I'm trapping in the Potomac Highlands, about 300 (river) miles above DC. [Smile]
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Bogmaster
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If your lock was slow, the hole was not large enough.I use the L drowner lock,no hang up ,and plenty of speed .
Tom Olson

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Dale F
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I bought a dozen adjustable cables from Hal and I like these. These are nice for spots that drop off deep. Deep spots like in rivers after beaver are great places for these, just run the excess till tight and no more standing on the drowning weight trying to stomp it deeper in the mud, or pushing on it with a spade trying to tighten up the cable.
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redsnow
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I was using a Victor-type swivel/drown lock on my cable. I guess on 1/8" cable, a 1/4" hole would work better, maybe even bigger?
Dale, thanks for the PM, I understand how that would help keep the line snug. Just looked at Hal's adjustable rigs, only 12 feet long. Not sure exactly how his are made, but have a couple ideas. Mine were solid, and if they had even a little slack, they seemed to catch every leaf and stick going down the creek. [Frown]

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musher
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I use an old canid trap swivel as a lock. The hole is plenty big and it slides well.
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Mike Marchewka
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Have a friend that used 14g on DEEP water beaver(quarry) for years...never had a problem. I tried 11 gauge then #9 wire...both worked but didn't like the extra time after making a catch. I went to a chain drowner system in the 90s and haven't looked back..yes its heavy but REUSABLE.
I see ads out now for chain drowner systems.

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LJ
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how does the chain system work. Never heard of it.
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Mike Marchewka
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A piece of tube steel is used and a heavy MACHINE chain is run through it...attached(welded) to the tube steel is a short piece of steel..an "arm" of sorts. This "arm" attaches to the trap and basically is your positive locking device. Once the animal is captured it takes the trap down the chain and cannot come back to surface because the "arm" ...lock becomes wedged against chain. First I saw of this device advertised was in the 90s...place out of Hayfield,Minnesota...Trap Pro Products.
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LJ
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do u have any pics of it? it still seems "differnt".
Posts: 73 | From: Sherburne, New York (Central) | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mike Marchewka
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No don't have a digital camera.
Posts: 152 | From: Crystal Lake,Illinois | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jwr
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heavy MACHINE chain? Mike the heavy caught my eye. What are you calling heavy? I use #3, never had a problem. Made me wonder why heavy.
Posts: 199 | From: ark | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mike Marchewka
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Heavy as #2 or #3 Jackie...I used "heavy" cause some of the early stuff I used was the foreign made Northwoods chain off their 1.75 traps...not real well made.
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redsnow
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One thing that no one has mentioned, how much weight is enough for your anchor? I have some big RR tie-plates that weigh around 17# each. What do you guys use? [Smile]
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Mike Marchewka
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I usually t-bar my deep water anchor. But have used two cinder blocks attached or 2-3 railroad tie plates attached...IN DEEP WATER.
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Ric
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For beaver 40 lb. is a good minimum weight.Coon somewhere around 20 lb.This is not takeing into consideration what the bottom or weight is made up of.Different conditions will require adjustments.Just for comparisions a cubic foot of dry dirt weighs app.75 lbs.
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musher
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Ric: Is it possible that you meant to type a cubic yard as opposed to a cubic foot?

If not your Americain dirt is much heavier than ours!

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Bogmaster
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The amount of weight needed at the end of a drowner,is dependent on the consistancy of the bottom. A hard bottom requires more weight,than a soft muddy bottom.
I agree with Ric about minimum weight amounts for beaver.On a hard flat bottom, a big beaver can pull 80 pounds with relative ease.Everything is lighter,once in the H2O.
I try to stake both ends of my sliders.
Just another one of the reasons,I have retired the footholds for beaver--no screwing around with drowning rigs.
Tom Olson

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Hal
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Musher: You must have metric dirt. [Smile]

Most people don’t realize how big a cubic foot is. A plastic “milk crate” is a little shy of a cubic foot. Fill one completely full of dirt one time and pick it up.

We all know that water is “a pint a pound” or 8 pounds to the gallon. A cubic foot of water is 7.5 gallons. So a cubic foot of water weighs about 60 pounds, not surprising then that a cubic foot of dry dirt weighs 75 lbs.

That “dry” part is important too. Nobody ever talks about the buoyancy factor. Everything you throw in the water wants to float -- even a rock. The weight of the object is lessened by the amount of water it displaces. Let’s say you took that dry dirt, packaged it very tightly in a plastic bag (removing all the air), and threw it in the water. That 75 lb chunk of dirt, will displace 7.5 gallons of water (60 lbs). It really only weighs 15 pounds, underwater.

However, most any trapper using dirt for an anchor is going to be using wet or damp earth to fill the bag. This is much heavier than dry dirt. Of course things like rocks and steel are even more dense (displace less water) than dirt.

[Smile] -- Hal

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musher
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Hal: 25 litres of soil is .9 of a cubic foot. I bought several bags of the stuff. The composted soil inside is VERY wet. There's no way it weighs 75 pounds. If it does, the woman at Canadian Tire that helped me throw them in the truck is sturdier than she looks. I say that it's maybe 30 pounds.

I'm guessing that my "dirt" is different. For example, 25 litres of sand would have a greater mass. [Smile]

BTW: I wonder if our milkcrates are the same. We buy milk in bags. There are 3 bags per package for a total of 4 litres (about 3 quarts).Our quarts were 40 ounces. I believe that yours are 32 ounces. Ounces are the same at 28 grams. However Troy ounces, as in gold, are 20 grams ... [Big Grin]

Canada going metric was one of the silliest things ever. You guys were supposed to follow suit. [Roll Eyes]

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Ric
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river sand is 120lb per cubic foot.Musher the dirt you purchased more that likely has a high amount of orgain material in it.The weights I gave come from a riggers manual it is refering to the kind of dirt you would find on a construction site.When I said 40 lb. for beaver that is what I want the dirt to weigh.I figure that the weight of the water in the dirt is cancled out by the dirt itself being in the water.Dirt being heavyer than water I have + net weight even after displacement is taken into consideration.That is what keeps the critter where it supposed to be
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redsnow
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Like most people, I'll toss my drowning anchor into the deepest water avilable. What is the recommended depth of water for a drowning set for coon, and for beaver? [Smile]
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Bogmaster
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A hind foot caught beaver,needs a minimum of 4 feet of water to drown.
I like at least 2 feet of water, for a front foot caught coon.(this is using a short chained trap,I have the chain,just long enough to set easily in front of my pockets).Those that do not shorten their chains,will need more water for dispatch.
Tom Olson

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Mike Marchewka
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Like Tom said....but let me add to that a short chained HEAVY trap is better BEAVER medicine.
Take a smaller jaw, stock trap that have some beaver trappers been advocating recently...not here by the way...like the #2 Bridger. Using Tom's info a beaver could bob up and down if back foot/toe caught even if on a short chain. A heavier trap on a short chain like a CDR 7.5, MB750 or #5 Bridger/Duke will cause the beaver to tire quicker...not always mind you but a higher percentage of the time.
Just another reason IF you are beaver trapping use the proper sized trap....you'll have fewer problems.
Now as far as deep water goes...my opinion now...for beaver trapping butt deep or deeper. I tried the below the knee method and I ran into problems. I now go with the butt deep method...I realize its only a few more inches but I want evey advantage to catch that beaver the FIRST time.
Coon trapping...knee height works for me. Let me add here ...some very good coon trappers have been using larger jaw spread traps when drowning coon. More versatility out their traps plus more weight on the animal....hope this helps.

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Ric
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Butt deep on who? In my case most respectable beaver would be able to walk.I'll refer those interested back to Bogmaster
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redsnow
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I estimated 4 to 4.5 feet of water for a postive drowning set for beaver. I figured 40" from a (big) beavers nose to it's back toes. And, another 12" for the trap and chain. I usually wade out knee-deep, and toss the anchor as far as I can. Thinking about my beaver from last winter, some of them were in 8 feet of water.

I've followed this thread from day one. We've had comments from around the country and Canada, by some good trappers. One thing that surprised me is the # of trappers using "drowning rods". Here in my section of WV, our rivers and streams have rock bottoms. It would be nearly impossible to stake the deep end of a cable or use drowning rods. They would work in some of the "flood-control" dams that I've trapped. All good info to know.

I've been thinking about Hal's adjustable drowning-rigs, and the best thing I've came up with so far, is to use an L-type lock (back-wards) for the adjustment. I can see where a snare lock would work also. [Smile]

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jwr
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I usually t-bar my deep water anchor. But have used two cinder blocks attached or 2-3 railroad tie plates attached...IN DEEP WATER.

For those of you that use this system, weld a leg on the top of your lock. Mine look lie a C.

MOST of the time I can hook the leg with my walking stick (kinda like a leggets tool and a must if water trapping for me) and not have to wade out and pull the stake.

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Mike Marchewka
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Great tip for the beginner trapper JWR...will save alot of wet feet..lol
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jwr
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Yeah Mike. I kinda wish I hadn't posted it. I think everyone needs to pay their dues. [Cool] [Wink]
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REM2
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Page 59 of the TPC has an ad for the Chain Drownding Locks $12.95/DOZ.
Posts: 36 | From: kalkaska, Mi | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
REM2
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Aug. issue!
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redsnow
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I hadn't noticed the ad, in the Trapper. Looks like it's made of square-tubing, guess a piece of pipe would work as good? It still looks like you'd have lots of drag/resistance on the "lock". ??? I have some small (1" or less) rigid conduit out at the shop, first chance I get I'll cut off a 2" or 3" piece, could cut one end at a 45* angle, (may need a longer "tongue") and see how it works. Was just thinking, could stake both ends of the chain here in the back-yard and hook the dog to the rig, and see what happens. It might surprise me??? [Smile]
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